Tech Blog Q and A Super Sneaky Tech Blog

Tech Blog Q and A Super Sneaky Tech Blog

Tech Blog Q and A

  • Will your low overhead brackets work with a torsion spring manual opening door without the assistance of an automatic opener?

Yes it will, however you are limited to a 7 tall door, using industry standard types of locking mechanisms.

  • I have a garage ceiling that is 93 high with 2 old 7 awning doors which I want to replace with section doors with openers.

Have an outs wing kitchen door that swings into space 5 ft back of the front of the garage and is 2 from ceiling, its also 14 from where the track would be on the sidewall of attached garage.

Sell anything that would work?

Okay the installation of the garage door is not even a challenge, however I think

your going to have to make a decision regarding the man door. Ive encountered this problem many times and sounds to me that you will have to either make the door in-swinging, or cut the existing one down. Therefore it can swing out under the garage door, only thing is you probably will have to re-finish above the door, unless it has a wide casing.

  • Hello, how many inches of headroom do your brackets use?

From the top of my truck to the roof in my garage, I have 10 of headroom.

So I would like to get it as high to the ceiling as passable. Thank you for your time.

Our products will allow a standard lift front mounted torsion spring type of hardware system and automatic operator to be installed in 6 of headroom in a garage with a closed in ceiling. It can be done in less space with side extension springs, or if you have an open ceiling to accommodate the spring.

So yes you can increase your door height, however you also must keep in mind you will have to do a reframe which includes a new header. The size of that depends on the width of your door opening also do not forget there is also the engineering and compliance of building code.

If you can send me pictures and detailed measurements, I can provide all the details you will need.

  • I have a very low to no headroom garage door installed now with a double track system. I would like to install a garage door opener but when the door is open there is maybe 1/2 between the top of the door and the ceiling. Would your products help?

The opening is 7.

Great question, okay first of all, dont let any one talk you into a jack shaft type operator, they are not compatible, here is why

If you have a front mounted torsion spring type, then yes piece of cake. If its a rear mounted, it will be more difficult, but doable. Could you send me a picture?

  • Hello Robert,

I have a simple project at home dealing with putting in a new style garage door into the house. There were some changes made to try to accommodate the new door. Going in, I knew I was close but after installing it, it was a little too close. Right now, the upper panel of the garage door does not have the clearance to swing so the door can open.The super sneaky product looks to be perfect to fix my oversight. I have filled out the paperwork for the sight measurements and theyre attached. Please review and let me know what items I should buy. If, I missed anything just let me know.

Im going to refund your money, I dont mind helping out, I really make my money by selling my product which fixes peoples problems. In turn I get word of mouth, which is the best way.

Okay I know the Super Sneakys will solve this no problem for you, do you or are you planning to install an automatic operator? That will affect the set up as well. If you could send me a picture, I would be glad to assist.

  • Hi,

As a doorman for over 30+ years Ive seen and installed many low-head add-on top fixtures, i.e. Frantz, O&E, etc. as well as double-track set-ups.

My question is can this fixture be used w/o an operator, and if so, if door binds slightly or if springs are a little strong, what keeps the top section from swinging up towards the ceiling header or torsion system. Is it spring loaded? Or is door heavy? Without op, what secures top section to opening?

Good questions, I will do my best to provide sensible answers.

Yes, you can do manual applications with the Super Sneakys, however that is currently limited to 7 high doors, because what we do is install a slide bar lock at the top of the door panel, with strategically placed pull handle. Its the slide bar lock that keeps the top panel secured against the header. For an outside access, you can use a t-handle in conjunction with the proper slide bar. What keeps top section from swinging straight up, if door binds, or springs are heavy? Nothing and that is exactly why the Super Sneakys have become an industry leader for safety heres why:

When the door encounters an obstruction, the top panel will tip up and either jam it self into the underside of the operator rail or on the operator extension bracket, there by redirecting most of the energy force from the bottom of the door, to the top panel.

  • Do these work without an opener?

Thank you,

Absolutely, you do a manual set up, however we currently limited to 7 high max.

  • I am building a garage under my house with a 6-6 high x 16-0 wide door, and will only have 6 to 9 of overhead clearance. What headroom clearance does your product require? I have not selected an overhead door or automatic opener yet. I assume that Jack Shaft Openers would work with your product?

You can install both door and operator in 6 of headroom space and have the door clear the opening. However no, our product is not compatible with jack shaft type of openers, you need a draw bar type. I recommend the Genie opener, which is digital and has a soft start / finish feature, works very smoothly with the Super Sneaky’s very cost effective also.

  • Can this item be used on older existing doors with the older style pull spring set up? I have low rafter clearance on 7 X 8 door.

Thanks

Absolutely, providing the door is in decent shape, running smoothly and not that non-insulated pan type that doesnt have real hinges, they tend to pull apart in short time from connecting an opener to them.

  • If I buy a garage door at Home Depot, will I not need to buy their low headroom kit if I buy yours? How low of headroom can your kit make a door operate in?

Thanks

No all of Super Sneaky products can be bought & used separately.

I would recommend that if you’re going to spend you’re hard earned money, do yourself a favor and buy a door that is steel on both sides and preferably one that is foam injected. They are just better quality and will last much longer, especially if you’re automating it. Id also recommend upgrading to a front mount torsion spring system, it just works much better than stretch springs, plus is easier to install.

As for our products, you can install a front mount torsion spring system, regardless of curve radius and automatic opener in 6 of headroom with a flat enclosed ceiling. It will clear the door opening a little less perhaps, but how much less depends on the circumstance.

  • Hi,

I have purchased a low overhead bracket and the instructions mention taking the radius from the door opening. I have a 12 radius. The door is 2 higher than the opening, I wish to raise the track 2 to 3 maybe a little more from the top of the door measurement. As I have enough headroom and there are other issues that require the raising of the track. Will the Super Sneaky work properly with this arrangement or should the track be as described in the instructions.

Thanks Ron

If you want to raise your track a few inches, then all you really need to do is swap out your 12 radius track for a 15 curve radius, plus the cables. If that creates a headroom problem where by the top panel is too close to the ceiling and need a few extra inches, then yes, the Super Sneakys will do the trick for you.

  • I want to install two doors in my garage. They are both 9ft wide by 6.5 high. I have 6 inches of head room above the door for the opener and rails. Can I buy everything from you that I need? Or do I buy the doors and rails and stuff from a store like Menards or Home Depot and the brackets from you?

Thanks Jason

You can purchase your doors from any place, I only suggest that you buy an insulated model, with a torsion type of spring, otherwise you get the cheap extension spring type. We currently only supply our low headroom parts.

  • We have a 121 height X 10 wide opening finished. The hole we are placing a 116 door height X 10 wide. It is a 2 inch garage door, steel backed and insulated.

We have about 6-7 inches of head room, NO opener going on this door, it will be manually operated. When I order this door today, what do I “NOT need from the door company that your Super Sneaky low headroom device will replace? I can be reached at or by the email.

Currently, I have to say no, our product will not work on a manual application for a door that size, you must use a draw bar type of opener.

  • Hi Robert,

How are you doing? Ive decided to install a 6 9 door, with the Super Sneaky bracket. Ive decided that framing down the height of the opening by 6 looks worse then the door hanging down. Im willing to spend many days on this project.What sort of typical headaches do you foresee for me? You told me over the phone of a similar situation where you were successful in installing a garage door. Do you have any photos? Also thank you for the information. I see what youre saying with the door hanging down, and negating any benefit of having a taller door. By the way, your well made YouTube video was very helpful with me finding your product.

Thanks

Also thanks for the pictures, perfect! Okay I would recommend that you frame the opening for an 18 x 66 door. The opening should be framed 1710 x 65. I think trying to get a taller door in there will be nothing but grief for you and really, you will have to cut the track anyways for the door and operator to go under the beam, which will leave the door hanging below the door opening, so I dont see you gaining anything by going with the taller door except problems, plus it is never a good idea to cut into a structural supporting beam. Also, yes you can install a 69 door, simply cut down the track to go under the two beams, however the operator will have to be angled down.

Other than that, I dont see any problems. Oh and we ship flat rate where possible so HI is no problem at all.

  • I have an application with 3 above the door frame on an 8 high x 10 wide opening. The ceiling above the frame is span crete. Do you have anything that will work in that tight of a space?

Generally what I do is order a 79 door, the bottom rubber raises the door by 1 and the weather strip takes up 1 1/2 if there is any gap, and then simply add a 13 piece of wood as filler. That will give you the extra room you need.

  • Hey Tim,

Talked to Robert. He wants me to email him the specs for my doors, headroom, and building. Can you forward these to him for me so he can look them over and recommend what brackets I need? Then I can order them from you and get them on the way. Door Specs: Installing 2-14 x 18 2 Ideal (by Clopay) Commercial Insulated doors in a building where the bottom of the ceiling is a maximum of 14 4 from the floor. One door in each end of the 152 building. Need Commercial Strength Super Sneaky Low Overhead Brackets and Operator Extension Brackets for both doors. (Using Liftmaster Commerial Openers on both doors). Can you get me a price and availability for these brackets?

Thanks, God Bless you.

That would be a big mistake with what you told me regarding 3 track. I suggest you need to drop the door height to 136. The operator rail will be long enough to pull the door clear, so from us you only require one pair of Super Sneakys, 2 pairs if it is double end hinged, plus Strut Mount Plates.

  • I have an old house and was told there was a garage door in the basement which has been converted into a wall and door. I would like to put a garage door with a walk thru door in but space is tight. The space is for a single garage door and the height available is 84.5 inches to the low point to the floor, or 86 if I move some pipes. There is no track to measure. If I dont put in an opener can I still use your system and what would you think would be the largest sized door I could install?

Thanks Marc

I would suggest a 66 door, front mount torsion spring with a 15 curve radius track.

  • Joe … Sons Garage Doors

How much head room is needed for these brackets ?

That can vary quite a bit from residential to commercial, generally with a 2 track, front mount torsion spring, 15 curve radius and draw bar opener we can squeeze that in 6 of headroom and have the door clearing the door opening. We can install in far less by cutting down more track, however then the door will be hanging below the opening.

  • Awesome. Thanks for the fast reply and ship!!

Your order was processed already and you should receive US Post confirmation today or tomorrow. ETA is generally about 2-3 days.

  • I have two normal 7 garage doors that were installed in a low over head bi level homes garage. The current situation has the top panel rollers mounted half way down the top panel. The original installed cut the regular tracks down at the bottom to get the space for the garage opener. Both top doors panels are bent in the middle (cheap metal doors) and doors wont operate because they bend and jam on the track. My question is upon installation of your products will I have to move the original garage door openers down as your video has moved the installed opener down to mid-way on springs? Current opener in a normal position and both doors use side extension springs.

Thanks Bob

Tech Blog Q and A Super Sneaky Tech Blog

If I was installing that job, I would take the door and operator out and start again, it’s usually better than trying to fix something that isnt working anyways.

I would use some punched angle along the top of the door to re-enforce it, then use punched angle to make an operator re-enforcing bracket which will attach over top of the punched angle and connect to the hinge below. One operator extension bracket and one pair of Super Sneakys would be adequate. Then follow instructions for cutting the track and position door operator so it has approximately 1 between bottom rail and door face.

Then you can get more of a pitched up angle for your extension spring. I found that when I make them more parallel with the horizontal track, the end of the spring pulley ends up hitting the 22 starter angle as the door moves to closed position.

  • Floor to ceiling height at front of garage is 8 2. 62 inches back the ceiling drops to 7 8 1/2. When I adjust the top panel of the door to be flush with the opening it wont clear the lower portion of the ceiling. The door is a 7 X 9 Clopay model HDS

It is 2 thick and is a manual door.

No problem, you will have to take your door back out, then cut down the vertical track using our formula, then re-install using a set of our Super Sneakys along with a slide bar lock on the top section.

  • I have a 7 high and 9 wide garage door opening and I only have 74 of headroom in the garage ceiling; is there anyway for me to install an overhead garage door in this building?

What I would do is order a 610 tall door. The bottom rubber adds 1, weather striping usually covers remaining gap, or add a piece of 13 as a filler.

  • Hi,

Great bracket!!

I have a B & D Statesman panel lift door and was wondering if your bracket is compatible? I am located in Canberra in Australia.

I was unfamiliar with that brand, so I took the time to have a look, is your door the 3 panel model? Can you tell me the curve radius and how much head room you have?

  • Installation details? Minimum dimensions?

Could you be a little more specific? Are we talking about a residential or commercial door? 2 or 3 track? Door height and width? Is this one job, or specified project? Are there any wind load requirements?

If you could describe your situation for me, I could at least send you something more specific that you’re looking for.

  • How much clearance above the door do you need with SS for your hardware?

Well there are a ton of variables, but if you’re using a front mount torsion spring system, residential door, then we can install door and automatic operator in 6.

  • Will this work without a garage door opener installed? How can I be sure that it will bolt up to my garage door? What is the bolt pattern? Or are all garage doors the same?

Not sure what you’re referring to, but yes the Super Sneakys will work manually. If you’re referring to the operator extension bracket, we dont have pre-drilled mounting holes to attach the operator, because there are so many different types on the market. Its a simple matter of aligning the operator mounting bracket on the OEB, then drill the hole pattern and bolt it on.

  • What is the least amount of room between the top of the door and the ceiling you can have and still use your system? I need to use an opener also.

Our system will allow a 12 or 15 curve radius, standard lift front mount torsion spring and operator to be installed in 6 of headroom and clear the door opening. Side extension springs, will reduce this further. The system can be installed manually on 7 or less door only.

  • Recd the Super Sneaky brackets today. Instructions say to use the hardware in the box to attach brackets to the door. There is no hardware in box. It looks like from photos that I am to drill all the way thru door panel to mount your brackets using long bolts and nuts. Is this correct? I still cant figure out where the foam inserts go. Poor photos.

No problem, okay the foam inserts wrap around the door roller, to make it quiet when the top panel tips back. As per the fasteners you use the standard ones supplied in your hardware box, when you bought the door. If you have a steel door, usually they will be a self tapping type of teck screw, looks as if they have a drill bit on the end. Some doors have pre-punched holes so the manufacturer supplies a lag type of fastener that is not self tapping. I personally use an impact gun to drive them in, but if you dont have one and find it difficult, then simply lay out the Super Sneaky on the top panel, pencil mark the holes, then pre-drill with 1/8 drill bit. You do not need to drill through the door at all. If youre having any problems, Im a phone call away.

  • Does this device need to be used with a 15 radius rail and will it work with a 3 panel door?

I would highly recommend that you do go with the 15 curve radius track when installing a 3 panel door, simply because the wider the panel the more difficult it is going around a curve. I have a 2 panel door in my shop and it works well.

  • We have an upcoming project that involves an insulated glass sectional door to be installed in the exterior wall of a living room. They are after a modern industrial look. We can do no opener but would prefer the side mounted jackshaft opener. The room height is 8 and we have not cut the new opening for the 12 wide door yet. We are after a 7 height min when the door is open, with the bulk of the door close to the ceiling. Low headroom track is bulky looking. Does you product solve our problem without too much extra hardware? What kind of clearances can we expect? Thanks for your help.

I believe you will find the Super Sneaky hinged bracket set will work fine for you application, in that no extra trackwork (double tracking) is needed at all. The low overhead brackets will function well in a 12 radius. The brackets would simply bolt to whatever backing surface is on the glass panel or alternatively, we have an approx. 2.25 x 2.25 galvanized backing surface that is used for this purpose if you need such.

  • I need an opener for my garage door, but cannot find one that can be installed due to minimal overhead clearance. There is less than an inch clearance between the ceiling and the door when it is in the open position. Can the Super Sneaky be installed in this situation?

Absolutely, no problem at all. The Super Sneakys, without any modification to your track system should get you another 2-3 of clearance to accommodate an automatic opener. If there is no room to mount the opener above the door to your building, then you need one of our operator extension brackets, made for this purpose. If you require someone to do the job, I can find one of our local dealers do it for you.

  • I am interested in the Operator Extension Bracket as Im challenged with a 24 directly above the garage door arm extender. This appears to be the answer however just to verify, wanted to know if this extender would work with GENIE fitment.

Absolutely, we made the operator extension bracket to work with any draw bar type operator, residential or commercial. It will reduce the clearance required to fit the operator by 2.

  • We recently installed a 168 with windows in a garage with 7 inches of head room. We used the Super Sneaky top brackets with low headroom double track. When closing the door with a trolley style opener, the top panel bowed too much and kinked. Is there a certain way the j-bar should be installed to ensure smoother closing?

Sorry to hear that. Okay first off, I have only once used my product with a double track system, but it did work and only because the customer poured a new concrete floor, creating a lower low headroom problem. You can set up the j-arm in different ways depending on what the job demands. I find mounting the arm higher on the top panel works the best and you can reverse it if necessary. Robert Your operator should be close to the door face as well, thats the purpose of the operator extension bracket. Next you should always manually run the door to make sure its operating smoothly. Finally I always put myself in a position where by I can pull out the electrical cord of the operator if something appears to be going wrong.

Sounds to me, you have one pivoting point working against another. If your operator is to far above the spring assembly, this could happen. You could have done the job with a single track 15 curve radius. To do this, take the height of the door curve radius and cut your vertical off to that. Then once you have the spring assembly installed, then you have to shorten the cable, so it has approximately 1/2 wrap on the cable drum. Always, always, always manually run the door, and then make sure you can unplug the operator just in case.

This method will allow you to install in 6 including the operator. If you have any questions, or a pending difficult job, or something unusual, you can contact me, I will immediately get back to you. Please include as much information as possible about the job, or even if you’re stuck on job, you can call me for a quick answer.

  • I installed a 168 with the Super Sneaky brackets and standard lift track, but when I went to close the door, the top panel(which is a row of glass so no strut installed) basically crumpled in half. The j-bar is straight so Im not sure exactly where I went wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

OH NO! First off a door of that width, especially with windows must have a strut. To install the strut, at the top of the door above the windows, you need a set of strut mounting plates, which fit under our product. (Ill ship them no charge). Always, very carefully manually run the door, connected to the operator push it from the top section to simulate the action of the operator. The door needs to be balanced and run smoothly, if it doesnt do this manually, then you need to figure out why.

Once you have solved the problem and ready to try the operator out, make sure you can unplug it the second something appears to go wrong. Then run the door up and down several times keeping close watch for any problems. The door needs to be running smoothly through out the open and close cycle. Sounds to me you possibly have the operator mounted to high up away from the door face, or the arm connection is too low on the top panel. Also with a door that size, you must you an operator re-enforcing plate. If you built the operator mount similar as I have shown, then you can use punched angle as the reinforcing which basically provides the strength needed when you have windows because a good portion of the integrity of the panel has been lost due to cutting out for the windows.

I would suggest stopping with the install and if you could send me pictures, I can tell you exactly what went wrong and hopefully come up with a solution to rescue that top section and get it working proper for you.

  • It appears to me that we are shortening the vertical rails and lowering the height of the horizontal rails. Is this correct? Thank you for your attention to this matter.

It depends upon the situation, less than 9 of headroom, but depending on the curve radius of track, now you’re into cutting down the vertical track. To achieve the lowest possible install use my formula. Take height of door and subtract the curve radius, cut the vertical track off to that. However there are any numbers of variables, if you have a specific and unique job, send me the details and I will send you my recommendations of what I know will work to fix your problem.

  • Sure.we had ordered the brackets..

Whats your advice on mounting the strut that runs across the top of the panel for reinforcement? The brackets are in the way to mount that strut across the top panel. Have you come across this issue?

You can mount the strut below the Super Sneakys, or cut the positioning tab off and mount them under the strut, or we have a new mounting plate that installs underneath the Super Sneak. It then sticks out to the side to create a solid mounting point when you want to mount the strut beside the Super Sneaky. The plates are available on our website.

  • If I install the low headroom brackets without a garage door opener, will the top panel stay flush against the weather stripping when the garage door is closed or will it flop in?

No for manual installs, you generally use a standard slide bar type lock. You can also use a slide bar lock T handle combination for an exterior keyed lock if you dont have electricity for an opener.

  • I bought a chamberlain belt drive opener which requires 2 clearance above the highest opening point of the door. Is it possible to install an opener on this door? Thanks for any help or suggestions you can provide.

Sounds like all you need is one of our operator extension brackets. It reduces clearance needed for the operator by 2 by positioning the mounting point out and away from the spring assembly.

  • How much do the low overhead brackets lower the door?  Thanks

Thanks for the question, basically depends on the situation and also what type of door system you’re working with. Super Sneakys combined with our operator extension bracket can install a door and operator in negative headroom, which has been done. We also deal with commercial doors of varying heights, 2 or 3 different curve radius and the list goes on. If you can send me details of your problem, I can send you specific information of what I know will work.

  • Super Sneaky:

I have attached the customer questionnaire with these photos. I purchased your Installation consulting service through Pay Pal order #..Can you please confirm that you received this information. I am working with a contractor to build my work shop and will have him modify the door track and utilize your system. I located your system on the internet and would like my contractor to install this modification.

Hi Jeff,

Just confirming receipt of your information, I will review it tonight and contact you tomorrow thanks. What is the height of your door, numbers on the form you filled out are blurry, cant make it out.

Thanks,

Door height 96.5, Door opening 93. Do you need any other numbers ?

Hi Jeff,

Okay no problem at all, here is your solution:

1.Unwind the spring and remove spring assembly

2.disconnect horizontal tracks

3.Remove top section

4.Slide rest of door panels up and out of track

5.Cut down vertical track as follows: for 15 curve radius track cut verticals to 81 and for 12 track cut to 84

6.Re-install door panels and vertical track, level bottom section, if one side needs shimming, extend so the track sits on it as well.

7.Drill or grind rivets out on the full angle attached to the horizontal track, except for the back one.

8.Attach the Super Sneaky’s to the top panel and stack, use a spike to temporarily hold in place.

9.put roller in Super Sneaky and install the horizontal tracks

10.Re-install spring assembly, bolt the end bearing plate at the lower hole level, leave loose.

11.Both ends will be able to pivot up and down, measure from the shaft to the door, both sides should be the same, tighten bolts, install wood fasteners, measure from the center and adjust so the shaft is level to the door, fasten spring mount to header

12.Cut the cables: Standing eye level, left side, wrap cable around cable drum so there is approximately 1/2 wrap around drum and cut off extra, use cut piece to measure for other side and crimp new fittings on. (these can be bought at Lowes and crimped on with vise grips)

13.Tighten set screw left side, make cable taught, hold shaft in place with vise grip, set right side, try to get equal tension between cables.

14.Wind the door spring, until door is balanced, end of spring wire points towards the header.

15.Back hang track

16.Install locking mechanism ( I will supply free of charge )

17.Install 24 above door and fasten punched angle to this

18.Mark out position of slide bar lock to punched angle, use a grinder, to make a slot.

19.Install additional slam or slide bar locks at bottom for added security, when top section is tilted in for ventilation.

20.Install weather stripping

That should do the job for you,

Thanks,

My contractor is asking if you could give a vertical track dimension for a 10 radius track because that is what is on the doors presently. I think the vertical would be 86 but I want you to verify.

Best regards,

Hi Jeff,

Okay I will give him a call tomorrow, if at possible, I would swap the 10 radius track for 15, the door will work much smoother. My formula to cut the track is door height 96 curve radius 10 = 86 (curve radius does not matter with our product). This formula will put you in at 86 if that is not enough clearance, simply cut more off the track.

  • Hello,

I have a low clearance garage ceiling and am currently running a low headroom track system with the extension type springs. With the current setup, when the door is opening, I have about a 1/2 inch of clearance and do NOT have an opener on the door. if i were to eliminate the low headroom 2 track system for your low overhead brackets, would that give me enough room to add an door opener? FYI my door is a 7 height.

Hi Mike,

I love a good challenge, I’m sure we can help you out. Could you please take a measurement from your floor to your ceiling or lowest obstruction and get back to me with that measurement, then I can come up with a solution for you.

Thanks,

Robert Armes

  • Hello, looking to order a new door but I’m not sure what. I have a door opening about 80.5″x16′ with a 15″ radius track and 94″ ceiling. The door on it is a little bigger then the opening with gives me around 12″ headroom. What should I order for a new garage door? and I am using an opener.

If I where installing that particular door, I would be ordering a 6’10″ and going with a 12″ curve radius track. That should fit the door opening better and leave it standard, if things are a bit tight for an opener, I would use one of our operator extension brackets, which reduces headroom for the operator by 2″.

These different height doors can’t be bought at hardware stores, usually only through a professional door installation company. Most are very friendly, helpful and would be more than willing to quote you on an installed job, or supply only. If you would like a referral to a reputable company in your area, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Thank you,

Robert Armes


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